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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Images are not a representation of reality&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2009/07/08/images-are-not-a-representation-of-reality/</link>
	<description>Technology, politics, culture</description>
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		<title>By: MEL</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2009/07/08/images-are-not-a-representation-of-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-11002</link>
		<dc:creator>MEL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=2146#comment-11002</guid>
		<description>&quot;Someone once told Picasso that he ought to make pictures of things the way they are - objective pictures. When Picasso said he did not understand, the man produced a picture of his wife from his wallet and said, &#039;There, you see, that&#039;s a picture of how she really is.&#039; Picasso looked at it and said, &#039;She&#039;s rather small, isn&#039;t she? And flat?&#039;&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Someone once told Picasso that he ought to make pictures of things the way they are &#8211; objective pictures. When Picasso said he did not understand, the man produced a picture of his wife from his wallet and said, &#8216;There, you see, that&#8217;s a picture of how she really is.&#8217; Picasso looked at it and said, &#8216;She&#8217;s rather small, isn&#8217;t she? And flat?&#8217;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: bowerbird</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2009/07/08/images-are-not-a-representation-of-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-10978</link>
		<dc:creator>bowerbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=2146#comment-10978</guid>
		<description>&gt;   if he’d simply told the world 
&gt;   what he was up to, 
&gt;   I don’t think anyone 
&gt;   would be too upset.

but then the n.y. times wouldn&#039;t have
published his work within that gallery,
since their focus was on photography,
and specifically not photo-illustration.
(because photo-illustration can make
_any_ point, even one known to be false.)

but even further...

it wasn&#039;t the fact that he didn&#039;t &quot;tell us&quot;
what he was doing...  not at all...  it was
the fact that he said point blank he was
_not_ doing something which he _was_
indeed doing.  so it wasn&#039;t an error of
omission, but an error of commission.

-bowerbird</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;   if he’d simply told the world<br />
&gt;   what he was up to,<br />
&gt;   I don’t think anyone<br />
&gt;   would be too upset.</p>
<p>but then the n.y. times wouldn&#8217;t have<br />
published his work within that gallery,<br />
since their focus was on photography,<br />
and specifically not photo-illustration.<br />
(because photo-illustration can make<br />
_any_ point, even one known to be false.)</p>
<p>but even further&#8230;</p>
<p>it wasn&#8217;t the fact that he didn&#8217;t &#8220;tell us&#8221;<br />
what he was doing&#8230;  not at all&#8230;  it was<br />
the fact that he said point blank he was<br />
_not_ doing something which he _was_<br />
indeed doing.  so it wasn&#8217;t an error of<br />
omission, but an error of commission.</p>
<p>-bowerbird</p>
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		<title>By: Real photographs &#124; dv8-designs</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2009/07/08/images-are-not-a-representation-of-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-10977</link>
		<dc:creator>Real photographs &#124; dv8-designs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=2146#comment-10977</guid>
		<description>[...] of Salon and the author of a terrific new history of blogging (Say Everything), provides us with reflections on what could be one of the entries, based on stories he did for the San Francisco Examiner and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Salon and the author of a terrific new history of blogging (Say Everything), provides us with reflections on what could be one of the entries, based on stories he did for the San Francisco Examiner and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Bloom</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2009/07/08/images-are-not-a-representation-of-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-10952</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=2146#comment-10952</guid>
		<description>Scott, see my blog on this....reading on paper vs screening on screens..... KEvin Kelly and Alex beam agree with me: 

what we do online is not reading, it is SCREENING, agree. disagree? blog on my idea, pro or con? 

Danny Bloom
Tufts 1971 in ...Taiwan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, see my blog on this&#8230;.reading on paper vs screening on screens&#8230;.. KEvin Kelly and Alex beam agree with me: </p>
<p>what we do online is not reading, it is SCREENING, agree. disagree? blog on my idea, pro or con? </p>
<p>Danny Bloom<br />
Tufts 1971 in &#8230;Taiwan</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Bloom</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2009/07/08/images-are-not-a-representation-of-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-10951</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=2146#comment-10951</guid>
		<description>Scott, zee my blog on this KEvin Kelly and Alex beam agree with me: what we do online is not reading, it is SCREENING, agree. disagree? blog on my idea, pro or con? 

Danny Bloom
Tufts 1971 in ...Taiwan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, zee my blog on this KEvin Kelly and Alex beam agree with me: what we do online is not reading, it is SCREENING, agree. disagree? blog on my idea, pro or con? </p>
<p>Danny Bloom<br />
Tufts 1971 in &#8230;Taiwan</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2009/07/08/images-are-not-a-representation-of-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-10940</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=2146#comment-10940</guid>
		<description>As a writer I&#039;m with you, Rob: I don&#039;t put words in people&#039;s mouths and I struggle to represent what I see faithfully. But any trust I&#039;ve earned is based on my record, not on the fact that I &quot;write words.&quot; Meyer reminds us that the same holds true for those who &quot;take pictures.&quot; We forget that, easily, I think.

So I&#039;m a traditionalist, but I will also accept the *possibility* that a talented observer -- writer or photographer -- might choose to &quot;go out of the way to distort things&quot; in order to deliver a more faithful portrait of what he or she had seen. My rule about that is: if you&#039;re doing that and you want me to keep trusting you, you&#039;d better  tell me what you&#039;re doing.

I guess what I&#039;m nagged about is what I criticized: the lack of disclosure. If Martins felt that the best way to represent the reality he observed was to doctor the images a certain way, I&#039;m willing to consider that (though reasonably skeptical). Let him tell us what he did and make the argument for it and let us judge. We similarly accept the work of New Journalists who, we understand, may not be offering verbatim transcripts of reality. What&#039;s important is that we know the terms of engagement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a writer I&#8217;m with you, Rob: I don&#8217;t put words in people&#8217;s mouths and I struggle to represent what I see faithfully. But any trust I&#8217;ve earned is based on my record, not on the fact that I &#8220;write words.&#8221; Meyer reminds us that the same holds true for those who &#8220;take pictures.&#8221; We forget that, easily, I think.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m a traditionalist, but I will also accept the *possibility* that a talented observer &#8212; writer or photographer &#8212; might choose to &#8220;go out of the way to distort things&#8221; in order to deliver a more faithful portrait of what he or she had seen. My rule about that is: if you&#8217;re doing that and you want me to keep trusting you, you&#8217;d better  tell me what you&#8217;re doing.</p>
<p>I guess what I&#8217;m nagged about is what I criticized: the lack of disclosure. If Martins felt that the best way to represent the reality he observed was to doctor the images a certain way, I&#8217;m willing to consider that (though reasonably skeptical). Let him tell us what he did and make the argument for it and let us judge. We similarly accept the work of New Journalists who, we understand, may not be offering verbatim transcripts of reality. What&#8217;s important is that we know the terms of engagement.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Neuwirth</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2009/07/08/images-are-not-a-representation-of-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-10937</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Neuwirth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=2146#comment-10937</guid>
		<description>Scott:

It&#039;s certainly true that nothing--not photos, not words, not pixels, not anything--can wholly reflect reality (to use the Times&#039; strained phrase), much as Borges said his words could never achieve the clarity and simultaneity of the Aleph.

Still, aren&#039;t you nagged by something here? The fact that, as Pedro Meyer rightly emphasized to you, all writing and photography (and most other attempts at communication) involve distortion doesn&#039;t mean that we have to go out of our way to distort things.

I&#039;m a writer not a photographer. I certainly sculpt what I write--through style, wording, emphasis, shadings of character, the quotes that I use, etc. But I don&#039;t add people, or shove in props, or lard on strange symmetries that accord with my aesthetic but weren&#039;t there when I was doing my reporting.

That would be making things up--and it strikes me as the verbal version of the kind of digital manipulation Martins engaged in here.

Rob Neuwirth</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s certainly true that nothing&#8211;not photos, not words, not pixels, not anything&#8211;can wholly reflect reality (to use the Times&#8217; strained phrase), much as Borges said his words could never achieve the clarity and simultaneity of the Aleph.</p>
<p>Still, aren&#8217;t you nagged by something here? The fact that, as Pedro Meyer rightly emphasized to you, all writing and photography (and most other attempts at communication) involve distortion doesn&#8217;t mean that we have to go out of our way to distort things.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a writer not a photographer. I certainly sculpt what I write&#8211;through style, wording, emphasis, shadings of character, the quotes that I use, etc. But I don&#8217;t add people, or shove in props, or lard on strange symmetries that accord with my aesthetic but weren&#8217;t there when I was doing my reporting.</p>
<p>That would be making things up&#8211;and it strikes me as the verbal version of the kind of digital manipulation Martins engaged in here.</p>
<p>Rob Neuwirth</p>
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		<title>By: Rhonda R Shearer</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2009/07/08/images-are-not-a-representation-of-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-10934</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhonda R Shearer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=2146#comment-10934</guid>
		<description>Scott, I like Clyde Mueller, member and Poynter Liaison for the NPPA ethics committee and a past president of the National Press Photographers Association, standard or test for what should be labeled a departure from normal news photography. Maybe you will find it helpful in this discussion.

I wrote the  following in a StinkyJournalism blog post, 5/29/09 &quot;In the world of many opinions and fights on the subject of what is ethical practice in news photo alterations, Mueller&#039;s rule of thumb--call it Mueller&#039;s Law-- is a good news photography standard that StinkyJournalism can live by...He asks a question: Does the photographic technique  mirror the function of human eye? If it doesn&#039;t, then at least label it &#039;illustration&#039; or disclose it in a caption for lack of a better alternative.&quot; 

http://www.stinkyjournalism.org/editordetail.php?id=334&amp;keyword=national%20press%20photographers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, I like Clyde Mueller, member and Poynter Liaison for the NPPA ethics committee and a past president of the National Press Photographers Association, standard or test for what should be labeled a departure from normal news photography. Maybe you will find it helpful in this discussion.</p>
<p>I wrote the  following in a StinkyJournalism blog post, 5/29/09 &#8220;In the world of many opinions and fights on the subject of what is ethical practice in news photo alterations, Mueller&#8217;s rule of thumb&#8211;call it Mueller&#8217;s Law&#8211; is a good news photography standard that StinkyJournalism can live by&#8230;He asks a question: Does the photographic technique  mirror the function of human eye? If it doesn&#8217;t, then at least label it &#8216;illustration&#8217; or disclose it in a caption for lack of a better alternative.&#8221; </p>
<p><a href="http://www.stinkyjournalism.org/editordetail.php?id=334&amp;keyword=national%20press%20photographers" rel="nofollow">http://www.stinkyjournalism.org/editordetail.php?id=334&amp;keyword=national%20press%20photographers</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alan Mairson</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2009/07/08/images-are-not-a-representation-of-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-10933</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Mairson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=2146#comment-10933</guid>
		<description>Great post, Scott. It reminds me of a conversation I had years ago when I was a staff writer at National Geographic magazine.

Photographer says to me: &quot;Alan, if 10 people look at my photographs and draw 10 different conclusions, I feel as though I&#039;ve done my job.&quot;  

I replied: &quot;Well, if 10 people read the caption I write for your picture and react the same way, I&#039;m in deep trouble -- especially with my editor, who will send the copy back to me with &#039;WTF?&#039; scrawled across the top.&quot; ... 

Photographs are often ambiguous. Without someone to spell out exactly what you&#039;re seeing, images are Rorschach blots (10 people, 10 stories). I wonder if that makes the jump to Photoshop that much easier. 

Pedro Meyer says: &quot;We trust pictures because they’re pictures. That’s crazy.&quot; It *is* crazy. It also may be why the whole &quot;graven image&quot; prohibition ranks #2 on the big Top Ten List. http://tr.im/rzh7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Scott. It reminds me of a conversation I had years ago when I was a staff writer at National Geographic magazine.</p>
<p>Photographer says to me: &#8220;Alan, if 10 people look at my photographs and draw 10 different conclusions, I feel as though I&#8217;ve done my job.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I replied: &#8220;Well, if 10 people read the caption I write for your picture and react the same way, I&#8217;m in deep trouble &#8212; especially with my editor, who will send the copy back to me with &#8216;WTF?&#8217; scrawled across the top.&#8221; &#8230; </p>
<p>Photographs are often ambiguous. Without someone to spell out exactly what you&#8217;re seeing, images are Rorschach blots (10 people, 10 stories). I wonder if that makes the jump to Photoshop that much easier. </p>
<p>Pedro Meyer says: &#8220;We trust pictures because they’re pictures. That’s crazy.&#8221; It *is* crazy. It also may be why the whole &#8220;graven image&#8221; prohibition ranks #2 on the big Top Ten List. <a href="http://tr.im/rzh7" rel="nofollow">http://tr.im/rzh7</a></p>
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		<title>By: bb</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2009/07/08/images-are-not-a-representation-of-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-10932</link>
		<dc:creator>bb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=2146#comment-10932</guid>
		<description>Hey, Scott -- thanks for the response. I see what you are driving at. Sorry if my initial response misrepresented your view a bit, but I actually think that maybe more contrast in your article between &quot;this is what the Times is upset about&quot; (i.e. not representing reality) vs. &quot;this is what we should REALLY be upset about&quot; (unprofessional hypocrite photographers passing off their work as pure and untouched by the stain of digital manipulation) might have clarified the matter for me at least. (Love this blog, btw. Always thought-provoking! Look forward to reading your book -- it&#039;s on my list of summer reading.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Scott &#8212; thanks for the response. I see what you are driving at. Sorry if my initial response misrepresented your view a bit, but I actually think that maybe more contrast in your article between &#8220;this is what the Times is upset about&#8221; (i.e. not representing reality) vs. &#8220;this is what we should REALLY be upset about&#8221; (unprofessional hypocrite photographers passing off their work as pure and untouched by the stain of digital manipulation) might have clarified the matter for me at least. (Love this blog, btw. Always thought-provoking! Look forward to reading your book &#8212; it&#8217;s on my list of summer reading.)</p>
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