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	<title>Comments on: McCain&#8217;s celeb ad, Obama&#8217;s premature presidentiality</title>
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	<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2008/07/31/mccains-celeb-ad-obamas-premature-presidentiality/</link>
	<description>Technology, politics, culture</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Cléo Saulnier</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2008/07/31/mccains-celeb-ad-obamas-premature-presidentiality/#comment-3961</link>
		<dc:creator>Cléo Saulnier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1588#comment-3961</guid>
		<description>I don't care about your politicians.  It's Scott's writing and this site that has gone downhill with garbage and delusional writing that troubles me.

I'll address this though because it was directed at me:

"You have not had to live through the stench of Ronald Reagan, George Bush and George W. Bush. If you had, you would realize how much better Obama is."

Your entire argument is based on those Presidents being horrible.  I agree with you.  But the entire world knows this.  We've felt the effect, so don't think that the rest of the world isn't as hopeful as you are to get rid of Bush which will happen regardless of who gets into the White House.

Unfortunately, you offer nothing to support Obama.  Just because others are horrible doesn't mean that Obama is the opposite.  In fact, just yesterday, Obama has admitted to having used the race card and has changed his position on offshore drilling.  With Obama, you have an admitted racist and someone that can't be trusted.  This is better?  In what Universe? Or has your hatred of Bush, who isn't even running, blinded you?

I'm a Canadian.  Just because you've been swimming in your own hatred and BS doesn't mean that it still doesn't smell like shit to me.

Answer me this.  Obama has flipped positions at least 20, maybe 40 times and has lied repeatedly.  What's the magic number of switched positions and lies before you accept that this man cannot be trusted?  After 3 or 4, shouldn't that be enough?  Otherwise, it can only mean that your hatred of Bush has blinded you.  This is what I've been saying all along.  Obama knows this is happening all over and is taking advantage of it.  He's feeding the hate.  And you've been sucked into it.

I tell you now that Obama will be a thousand times worse than Bush.  Anyone that feeds off hate like he does will cause more damage than anyone with all the weapons in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t care about your politicians.  It&#8217;s Scott&#8217;s writing and this site that has gone downhill with garbage and delusional writing that troubles me.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll address this though because it was directed at me:</p>
<p>&#8220;You have not had to live through the stench of Ronald Reagan, George Bush and George W. Bush. If you had, you would realize how much better Obama is.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your entire argument is based on those Presidents being horrible.  I agree with you.  But the entire world knows this.  We&#8217;ve felt the effect, so don&#8217;t think that the rest of the world isn&#8217;t as hopeful as you are to get rid of Bush which will happen regardless of who gets into the White House.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, you offer nothing to support Obama.  Just because others are horrible doesn&#8217;t mean that Obama is the opposite.  In fact, just yesterday, Obama has admitted to having used the race card and has changed his position on offshore drilling.  With Obama, you have an admitted racist and someone that can&#8217;t be trusted.  This is better?  In what Universe? Or has your hatred of Bush, who isn&#8217;t even running, blinded you?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a Canadian.  Just because you&#8217;ve been swimming in your own hatred and BS doesn&#8217;t mean that it still doesn&#8217;t smell like shit to me.</p>
<p>Answer me this.  Obama has flipped positions at least 20, maybe 40 times and has lied repeatedly.  What&#8217;s the magic number of switched positions and lies before you accept that this man cannot be trusted?  After 3 or 4, shouldn&#8217;t that be enough?  Otherwise, it can only mean that your hatred of Bush has blinded you.  This is what I&#8217;ve been saying all along.  Obama knows this is happening all over and is taking advantage of it.  He&#8217;s feeding the hate.  And you&#8217;ve been sucked into it.</p>
<p>I tell you now that Obama will be a thousand times worse than Bush.  Anyone that feeds off hate like he does will cause more damage than anyone with all the weapons in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: professorfate</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2008/07/31/mccains-celeb-ad-obamas-premature-presidentiality/#comment-3943</link>
		<dc:creator>professorfate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 05:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1588#comment-3943</guid>
		<description>Cléo Saulnier: As a Canadian it is much easier for you to say "Leave the politicians alone. They’re garbage. All of them." You have not had to live through the stench of Ronald Reagan, George Bush and George W. Bush. If you had, you would realize how much better Obama is. While my first choice was Kucinich, any Democratic Presidential candidate would be better than the war mongering Republicans (except for Ron Paul).  We, US citizens, have had to watch our country go to "hell in a hand basket" starting with Ronald Reagan and hopefully ending with the most ruthless tyrannical President that we  have ever experienced. We have been crippled by  debt, sacrificed ours and other lives for lies, our rights stripped for mythical security, and our spirit shattered by a media that willingly divided the country for increased ratings. We have to invest in our politicians and hope that from time to time the system will work. If we don't, the results will be as catastrophic as they have been under George W. Bush. We will always have to take the chance because there is too much at stake to too. The United States has far too much power and it has been our undoing since WWII ended. From a country that tried to avoid war we have become a country that relishes it. We have to take the chance that someone will change that. If we don't, it won't be long before we will cease to exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cléo Saulnier: As a Canadian it is much easier for you to say &#8220;Leave the politicians alone. They’re garbage. All of them.&#8221; You have not had to live through the stench of Ronald Reagan, George Bush and George W. Bush. If you had, you would realize how much better Obama is. While my first choice was Kucinich, any Democratic Presidential candidate would be better than the war mongering Republicans (except for Ron Paul).  We, US citizens, have had to watch our country go to &#8220;hell in a hand basket&#8221; starting with Ronald Reagan and hopefully ending with the most ruthless tyrannical President that we  have ever experienced. We have been crippled by  debt, sacrificed ours and other lives for lies, our rights stripped for mythical security, and our spirit shattered by a media that willingly divided the country for increased ratings. We have to invest in our politicians and hope that from time to time the system will work. If we don&#8217;t, the results will be as catastrophic as they have been under George W. Bush. We will always have to take the chance because there is too much at stake to too. The United States has far too much power and it has been our undoing since WWII ended. From a country that tried to avoid war we have become a country that relishes it. We have to take the chance that someone will change that. If we don&#8217;t, it won&#8217;t be long before we will cease to exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Cléo Saulnier</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2008/07/31/mccains-celeb-ad-obamas-premature-presidentiality/#comment-3935</link>
		<dc:creator>Cléo Saulnier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1588#comment-3935</guid>
		<description>"I’ve been writing about politics on and off for my entire career."

I hope you have something else to fall back on.  Seriously. Here's why. 

"(1) I’ll get us out of Iraq faster than my opponent and focus American money and energyand lives in Afghanistan against the people who actually attacked us on 9/11;"

Which Obama is that?

The one that was for FISA or the one against FISA?
The one that was for the Iraq war in 2004 or the one against it in 2002 and 2008?
The one that was far NAFTA or the one against NAFTA?
Tho one for public financing or the one against public financing?

How do you know what he stands for?  You don't.  And you know you don't.  You couldn't tell for FISA, Iraq, NAFTA, public financing, etc.  So why is Iraq any different now?  What in Obama's history makes you so sure?  He's a POLITICIAN.  He'll say whatever he wants.

"(2) I’ll tackle the country’s number one domestic problem, fixing the broken health-care system."

I live in a country that has a proper healthcare system.  Let me tell you right now that Obama's system is a joke.  It doesn't cover everyone.  And it's still in the hands of insurance companies.  If you seriously wanted to convince me with this, then this is more serious than I thought.

"Those two things alone would be worth voting for."

If you knew he could keep his word, maybe.  But he doesn't keep his word.  EVER!  He's a POLITICIAN.  He tells people what they want to hear and they block out the rest.  You say you've been commenting on politics on and off for your entire career and you still don't know this?

"But calling him “racist” and saying he has “no ability for empathy”? Who exactly is “filled with hatred” and “filled with delusions”?"

I want to get rid of using minority status as a way to gain an advantage.  I'm from a minority and it hurts that minority more than anyone else, often with disastrous effects.  I grew up feeling some of these effects.  My ancestors were slaves and the animosity can sustain itself throughout the generations.  What Obama is doing cannot be more damaging.  I can't go into ALL the details, but I'll mention the few main ones.  

Obama plays the race card all the time as he did against McCain recently and also against Ferrero whose only crime was repeating Obama's own words (these words were posted on Obama's site at the time).  He also used it against Bill in SC.  You don't get called the first black president by being racist.  And you certainly don't set up charities in Africa, where Bill is right now, if you're racist.  Obama has used it against Hillary countless times.  And best of all, he went to a racist church for 20 years.  His Philly speech was offensive on so many levels.  Instead of standing up against racism, he stood by his friend by using the most flawed of all arguments that the good outweighs the bad.  If that were true, there'd be no one in jail.  If you did a good deed, you could continue to be a racist or commit other wrongdoings.  It's mindboggling the logic here.  Oh, and "typical white woman" to you too.

Obama is racist.  This is undeniable.  No way that someone who is not a racist could have stayed in that church for 20 years.  If you can't see this, then you are also a racist because people who are not racist will not defend those who are.

I want to see this hatred found in Obama and yourself disapear.  You are so drunk with this hatred that you've been blinded. 

I'm Canadian.  I don't care what politician you vote for.  But the sheer lunacy of what you're spewing here and what you support is hate filled.  It's not fun.  And you overreact to everything.  You are not like this.  This is not the OLD you.  If it is, then I've seriously misjudged you.  If you support racism and can write such made up issues over POLITICIANS and LAWYERS, then you need serious help.  They will let you down.  They're not worth the investment and I'm seeing someone who used to provide great content lower himself to such drivel.  Leave the politicians alone.  They're garbage.  All of them.  You can't write about them anyways.  I'm sorry to tell you this, but after attempting to being somewhat blunt, I'm going to be point blank.  You really, really suck at political commentating.  Not just bad, but desastrously horrible.  You're a disaster of biblical proportions when it comes to that kind of writing.  You're above this kind of thing anyways.  Lots of people used to come here.  


THERE WAS VALUE!

Now there is only drivel.  Remember that I don't care about your election.  I only care that you helped me out in a time of need, even if only coincidental, and I don't like seeing those whom I feel a sense of gratitude drop to such a low level.

Take care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ve been writing about politics on and off for my entire career.&#8221;</p>
<p>I hope you have something else to fall back on.  Seriously. Here&#8217;s why. </p>
<p>&#8220;(1) I’ll get us out of Iraq faster than my opponent and focus American money and energyand lives in Afghanistan against the people who actually attacked us on 9/11;&#8221;</p>
<p>Which Obama is that?</p>
<p>The one that was for FISA or the one against FISA?<br />
The one that was for the Iraq war in 2004 or the one against it in 2002 and 2008?<br />
The one that was far NAFTA or the one against NAFTA?<br />
Tho one for public financing or the one against public financing?</p>
<p>How do you know what he stands for?  You don&#8217;t.  And you know you don&#8217;t.  You couldn&#8217;t tell for FISA, Iraq, NAFTA, public financing, etc.  So why is Iraq any different now?  What in Obama&#8217;s history makes you so sure?  He&#8217;s a POLITICIAN.  He&#8217;ll say whatever he wants.</p>
<p>&#8220;(2) I’ll tackle the country’s number one domestic problem, fixing the broken health-care system.&#8221;</p>
<p>I live in a country that has a proper healthcare system.  Let me tell you right now that Obama&#8217;s system is a joke.  It doesn&#8217;t cover everyone.  And it&#8217;s still in the hands of insurance companies.  If you seriously wanted to convince me with this, then this is more serious than I thought.</p>
<p>&#8220;Those two things alone would be worth voting for.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you knew he could keep his word, maybe.  But he doesn&#8217;t keep his word.  EVER!  He&#8217;s a POLITICIAN.  He tells people what they want to hear and they block out the rest.  You say you&#8217;ve been commenting on politics on and off for your entire career and you still don&#8217;t know this?</p>
<p>&#8220;But calling him “racist” and saying he has “no ability for empathy”? Who exactly is “filled with hatred” and “filled with delusions”?&#8221;</p>
<p>I want to get rid of using minority status as a way to gain an advantage.  I&#8217;m from a minority and it hurts that minority more than anyone else, often with disastrous effects.  I grew up feeling some of these effects.  My ancestors were slaves and the animosity can sustain itself throughout the generations.  What Obama is doing cannot be more damaging.  I can&#8217;t go into ALL the details, but I&#8217;ll mention the few main ones.  </p>
<p>Obama plays the race card all the time as he did against McCain recently and also against Ferrero whose only crime was repeating Obama&#8217;s own words (these words were posted on Obama&#8217;s site at the time).  He also used it against Bill in SC.  You don&#8217;t get called the first black president by being racist.  And you certainly don&#8217;t set up charities in Africa, where Bill is right now, if you&#8217;re racist.  Obama has used it against Hillary countless times.  And best of all, he went to a racist church for 20 years.  His Philly speech was offensive on so many levels.  Instead of standing up against racism, he stood by his friend by using the most flawed of all arguments that the good outweighs the bad.  If that were true, there&#8217;d be no one in jail.  If you did a good deed, you could continue to be a racist or commit other wrongdoings.  It&#8217;s mindboggling the logic here.  Oh, and &#8220;typical white woman&#8221; to you too.</p>
<p>Obama is racist.  This is undeniable.  No way that someone who is not a racist could have stayed in that church for 20 years.  If you can&#8217;t see this, then you are also a racist because people who are not racist will not defend those who are.</p>
<p>I want to see this hatred found in Obama and yourself disapear.  You are so drunk with this hatred that you&#8217;ve been blinded. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m Canadian.  I don&#8217;t care what politician you vote for.  But the sheer lunacy of what you&#8217;re spewing here and what you support is hate filled.  It&#8217;s not fun.  And you overreact to everything.  You are not like this.  This is not the OLD you.  If it is, then I&#8217;ve seriously misjudged you.  If you support racism and can write such made up issues over POLITICIANS and LAWYERS, then you need serious help.  They will let you down.  They&#8217;re not worth the investment and I&#8217;m seeing someone who used to provide great content lower himself to such drivel.  Leave the politicians alone.  They&#8217;re garbage.  All of them.  You can&#8217;t write about them anyways.  I&#8217;m sorry to tell you this, but after attempting to being somewhat blunt, I&#8217;m going to be point blank.  You really, really suck at political commentating.  Not just bad, but desastrously horrible.  You&#8217;re a disaster of biblical proportions when it comes to that kind of writing.  You&#8217;re above this kind of thing anyways.  Lots of people used to come here.  </p>
<p>THERE WAS VALUE!</p>
<p>Now there is only drivel.  Remember that I don&#8217;t care about your election.  I only care that you helped me out in a time of need, even if only coincidental, and I don&#8217;t like seeing those whom I feel a sense of gratitude drop to such a low level.</p>
<p>Take care.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2008/07/31/mccains-celeb-ad-obamas-premature-presidentiality/#comment-3922</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1588#comment-3922</guid>
		<description>Cleo, I appreciate the advice and the perspective you bring, but you're coming at this with only a partial understanding of who I am. I've been writing about politics on and off for my entire career. I'm not going to stop now, sorry. This blog will continue be a mix of the different parts of my life and interests, and it's hard for me to imagine leaving politics out. In other words, this *is* my old self.

As for the substantial issue here, I'm sorry, but I can see no basis in reality for the equation of Obama with Paris Hilton and Britney. Listen to his speeches. Read his position papers. Watch his interviews. He makes so much more sense, has so much deeper knowledge of the world and the issues, is simply so much more articulate in offering an alternative to the madness of the last eight years here in the U.S. that the "not ready to lead" argument is a joke -- particularly when proffered by a candidate who remains unclear on the difference between Shia and Sunni or the fact that Czechoslovakia disappeared years ago. 

What does Obama stand for? The core of his candidacy, I think, the deal that he is making with people who vote for him, is: (1) I'll get us out of Iraq faster than my opponent and focus American money and energyand lives in Afghanistan against the people who actually attacked us on 9/11; (2) I'll tackle the country's number one domestic problem, fixing the broken health-care system. Those two things alone would be worth voting for. That we're likely to get a leader who is also going to keep the Supreme Court from tipping into a paleolithic majority, try to take global warming seriously and restore the idea that government service is not exclusively about partisanship and lucre? That's even better. Of course Obama is human and fallible and won't achieve everything he aims for. Of course he'll change some positions. But calling him "racist" and saying he has "no ability for empathy"? Who exactly is "filled with hatred" and "filled with delusions"? 

And, you know, it's too bad you had a lousy experience with lawyers, but to decide on that basis that "all lawyers will screw you" is sort of like dismissing McCain because he's a military guy and "all soldiers will kill you."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cleo, I appreciate the advice and the perspective you bring, but you&#8217;re coming at this with only a partial understanding of who I am. I&#8217;ve been writing about politics on and off for my entire career. I&#8217;m not going to stop now, sorry. This blog will continue be a mix of the different parts of my life and interests, and it&#8217;s hard for me to imagine leaving politics out. In other words, this *is* my old self.</p>
<p>As for the substantial issue here, I&#8217;m sorry, but I can see no basis in reality for the equation of Obama with Paris Hilton and Britney. Listen to his speeches. Read his position papers. Watch his interviews. He makes so much more sense, has so much deeper knowledge of the world and the issues, is simply so much more articulate in offering an alternative to the madness of the last eight years here in the U.S. that the &#8220;not ready to lead&#8221; argument is a joke &#8212; particularly when proffered by a candidate who remains unclear on the difference between Shia and Sunni or the fact that Czechoslovakia disappeared years ago. </p>
<p>What does Obama stand for? The core of his candidacy, I think, the deal that he is making with people who vote for him, is: (1) I&#8217;ll get us out of Iraq faster than my opponent and focus American money and energyand lives in Afghanistan against the people who actually attacked us on 9/11; (2) I&#8217;ll tackle the country&#8217;s number one domestic problem, fixing the broken health-care system. Those two things alone would be worth voting for. That we&#8217;re likely to get a leader who is also going to keep the Supreme Court from tipping into a paleolithic majority, try to take global warming seriously and restore the idea that government service is not exclusively about partisanship and lucre? That&#8217;s even better. Of course Obama is human and fallible and won&#8217;t achieve everything he aims for. Of course he&#8217;ll change some positions. But calling him &#8220;racist&#8221; and saying he has &#8220;no ability for empathy&#8221;? Who exactly is &#8220;filled with hatred&#8221; and &#8220;filled with delusions&#8221;? </p>
<p>And, you know, it&#8217;s too bad you had a lousy experience with lawyers, but to decide on that basis that &#8220;all lawyers will screw you&#8221; is sort of like dismissing McCain because he&#8217;s a military guy and &#8220;all soldiers will kill you.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Cléo Saulnier</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2008/07/31/mccains-celeb-ad-obamas-premature-presidentiality/#comment-3917</link>
		<dc:creator>Cléo Saulnier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 07:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1588#comment-3917</guid>
		<description>This is what you said:

"Here it is, four years later, and pretty much the same team of GOP attack dogs are pulling the same set of tricks."
...
"C’mon! Whatever you think of Obama, the “airhead” charge seems bizarre and so remote from reality as to be laughable."

Say what?  Scott, you've completely flipped.  This is complete lunacy.  Obama's resume is razor thin.  That's why McCain is saying Obama is a celebrity and nothing more.  This happens to be true.  There are articles on this from plenty of left wing newspapers and journals.  It's not something that McCain just came up with, you know.  McCain's ad is swiftboating?  My goodness, we have a good overactive imagination, now don't we?

Scott, you should leave the political commentating to others because this is truly the worst piece I've ever seen you write.  And other than politics, I've always liked what you wrote even if I didn't always agree with it.  Sorry to say this was pure garbage.  BTW, why would you ever consider supporting someone like Obama who is so racist and has no ability for empathy?  Also, you used laughable at least twice.  Laughable is used when you don't have an actual argument.

Like I said before, you're so filled with hatred lately based on complete overreactions.  This seems to be a pattern with Obama supporters everywhere.  They can only stand AGAINST something and never FOR something.  When you only stand against something, you only use negative emotions.  And you're showing this in flying colors.  Tell me, what does Obama stand FOR?  Ok, now remove the issues that he has changed positions on.  Anything left?  Didn't think so.  How do you know he won't change positions on future issues?  Who is Obama?  It's all an illusion that is acted out and that's what the ad was really about.  Ironically, the McCain ad was about reality vs. illusion in the Obama world and it flew completely over your head.

Leave Obama behind and return to your old self.  I really miss it.  This blog used to be FUN to read.  Right now, it's filled with delusions.  Remember, Obama is a LAWYER and POLITICIAN.  If you put your hopes in a LAWYER and POLITICIAN (I don't care who they are), you're setting yourself up for one hell of a fall.  I got screwed by lawyers.  I think I told you the story.  Don't fall for it.  It's not worth it.  Even if you win, you lose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what you said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Here it is, four years later, and pretty much the same team of GOP attack dogs are pulling the same set of tricks.&#8221;<br />
&#8230;<br />
&#8220;C’mon! Whatever you think of Obama, the “airhead” charge seems bizarre and so remote from reality as to be laughable.&#8221;</p>
<p>Say what?  Scott, you&#8217;ve completely flipped.  This is complete lunacy.  Obama&#8217;s resume is razor thin.  That&#8217;s why McCain is saying Obama is a celebrity and nothing more.  This happens to be true.  There are articles on this from plenty of left wing newspapers and journals.  It&#8217;s not something that McCain just came up with, you know.  McCain&#8217;s ad is swiftboating?  My goodness, we have a good overactive imagination, now don&#8217;t we?</p>
<p>Scott, you should leave the political commentating to others because this is truly the worst piece I&#8217;ve ever seen you write.  And other than politics, I&#8217;ve always liked what you wrote even if I didn&#8217;t always agree with it.  Sorry to say this was pure garbage.  BTW, why would you ever consider supporting someone like Obama who is so racist and has no ability for empathy?  Also, you used laughable at least twice.  Laughable is used when you don&#8217;t have an actual argument.</p>
<p>Like I said before, you&#8217;re so filled with hatred lately based on complete overreactions.  This seems to be a pattern with Obama supporters everywhere.  They can only stand AGAINST something and never FOR something.  When you only stand against something, you only use negative emotions.  And you&#8217;re showing this in flying colors.  Tell me, what does Obama stand FOR?  Ok, now remove the issues that he has changed positions on.  Anything left?  Didn&#8217;t think so.  How do you know he won&#8217;t change positions on future issues?  Who is Obama?  It&#8217;s all an illusion that is acted out and that&#8217;s what the ad was really about.  Ironically, the McCain ad was about reality vs. illusion in the Obama world and it flew completely over your head.</p>
<p>Leave Obama behind and return to your old self.  I really miss it.  This blog used to be FUN to read.  Right now, it&#8217;s filled with delusions.  Remember, Obama is a LAWYER and POLITICIAN.  If you put your hopes in a LAWYER and POLITICIAN (I don&#8217;t care who they are), you&#8217;re setting yourself up for one hell of a fall.  I got screwed by lawyers.  I think I told you the story.  Don&#8217;t fall for it.  It&#8217;s not worth it.  Even if you win, you lose.</p>
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