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	<title>Comments on: John Backus, RIP, and up next in Code Reads</title>
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	<description>Technology, politics, culture</description>
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		<title>By: Scott Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2007/03/20/john-backus/comment-page-1/#comment-540</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2007 15:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1246#comment-540</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s been ridiculously long and I&#039;m woefully late on this but I am actually finishing it up this week and expect to post soon on it. Thanks for keeping me honest :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been ridiculously long and I&#8217;m woefully late on this but I am actually finishing it up this week and expect to post soon on it. Thanks for keeping me honest :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Conway</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2007/03/20/john-backus/comment-page-1/#comment-539</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Conway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2007 15:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1246#comment-539</guid>
		<description>Scott, did you take my advice and throw in the towel on this one? Or have you just been busy with other things?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, did you take my advice and throw in the towel on this one? Or have you just been busy with other things?</p>
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		<title>By: Cleo Saulnier</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2007/03/20/john-backus/comment-page-1/#comment-541</link>
		<dc:creator>Cleo Saulnier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1246#comment-541</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a comparison and example about what I talk in my first link above.  You can check this afterwards.  It has a couple diagrams that may describe things better than just words.

http://my.opera.com/Vorlath/blog/2007/03/23/why-the-black-box-analogy-does-not-work-for-function

Yeah, my Internet access is in limbo.  It&#039;ll be back up next week tho.  In the meantime, I may well have a vacation of sorts with the result of another project (real estate related), but I feel kind of stupid that I can&#039;t raise the final 5K cuz I don&#039;t know anyone.  We have a plan B tho although less lucrative.  If this works, vacation day will be every day.  Anyways, after that I can finally show to the world what I&#039;ve been talking about all this time by finishing my own software development tool.  If anyone has articles on IC type software, let me know.  There&#039;s one particular one I&#039;m looking for that said the only reason we didn&#039;t use it was because the economic model for it would not sustain companies.  Would programmers still want easy and reliably built software if it meant there was no money in it?  What if that was the tradeoff?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a comparison and example about what I talk in my first link above.  You can check this afterwards.  It has a couple diagrams that may describe things better than just words.</p>
<p><a href="http://my.opera.com/Vorlath/blog/2007/03/23/why-the-black-box-analogy-does-not-work-for-function" rel="nofollow">http://my.opera.com/Vorlath/blog/2007/03/23/why-the-black-box-analogy-does-not-work-for-function</a></p>
<p>Yeah, my Internet access is in limbo.  It&#8217;ll be back up next week tho.  In the meantime, I may well have a vacation of sorts with the result of another project (real estate related), but I feel kind of stupid that I can&#8217;t raise the final 5K cuz I don&#8217;t know anyone.  We have a plan B tho although less lucrative.  If this works, vacation day will be every day.  Anyways, after that I can finally show to the world what I&#8217;ve been talking about all this time by finishing my own software development tool.  If anyone has articles on IC type software, let me know.  There&#8217;s one particular one I&#8217;m looking for that said the only reason we didn&#8217;t use it was because the economic model for it would not sustain companies.  Would programmers still want easy and reliably built software if it meant there was no money in it?  What if that was the tradeoff?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Corcoran</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2007/03/20/john-backus/comment-page-1/#comment-545</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Corcoran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1246#comment-545</guid>
		<description>Hi Scott,

My wife&#039;s parents also live in Ashland, where John Backus last resided.

It turns out that Backus&#039; daughter is our family veterinarian in Ashland.  My father-in-law knew Backus for a few years because of this.  And yet I don&#039;t believe he knew Backus was the inventor of Fortran.

I&#039;m guessing that the old &quot;six degrees of separation&quot; could probably be five or even four when talking about the software community.

Patrick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Scott,</p>
<p>My wife&#8217;s parents also live in Ashland, where John Backus last resided.</p>
<p>It turns out that Backus&#8217; daughter is our family veterinarian in Ashland.  My father-in-law knew Backus for a few years because of this.  And yet I don&#8217;t believe he knew Backus was the inventor of Fortran.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing that the old &#8220;six degrees of separation&#8221; could probably be five or even four when talking about the software community.</p>
<p>Patrick</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2007/03/20/john-backus/comment-page-1/#comment-543</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1246#comment-543</guid>
		<description>OK, this is great -- I feel like we&#039;ve definitely hit some new level of participation here now that the discussion begins without me :-)

Seriously, thanks -- I&#039;m going to read the critique carefully, but not till after I&#039;ve read the whole Backus paper first... Meanwhile, hope your sporadic internet access means you&#039;re getting a vacation of some kind and not that your experiencing a telecommunications breakdown!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, this is great &#8212; I feel like we&#8217;ve definitely hit some new level of participation here now that the discussion begins without me :-)</p>
<p>Seriously, thanks &#8212; I&#8217;m going to read the critique carefully, but not till after I&#8217;ve read the whole Backus paper first&#8230; Meanwhile, hope your sporadic internet access means you&#8217;re getting a vacation of some kind and not that your experiencing a telecommunications breakdown!</p>
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		<title>By: Cleo Saulnier</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2007/03/20/john-backus/comment-page-1/#comment-542</link>
		<dc:creator>Cleo Saulnier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1246#comment-542</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m providing my assessment of it now because my Internet access will be sporadic in the near future.  Warning: I pull no punches.

http://my.opera.com/Vorlath/blog/2007/03/21/code-reads-backus-1977-turing-lecture</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m providing my assessment of it now because my Internet access will be sporadic in the near future.  Warning: I pull no punches.</p>
<p><a href="http://my.opera.com/Vorlath/blog/2007/03/21/code-reads-backus-1977-turing-lecture" rel="nofollow">http://my.opera.com/Vorlath/blog/2007/03/21/code-reads-backus-1977-turing-lecture</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Conway</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2007/03/20/john-backus/comment-page-1/#comment-544</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Conway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 14:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1246#comment-544</guid>
		<description>That Fortran example would have worked better if the formatting had come through. Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That Fortran example would have worked better if the formatting had come through. Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Conway</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2007/03/20/john-backus/comment-page-1/#comment-538</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Conway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 14:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1246#comment-538</guid>
		<description>Oh, Scott... Don&#039;t do that to yourself.

Ironically, since one of his lasting contributions to the field was a method for formalizing programming syntax, Backus did not have the knack for inventing clean, intuitive syntax. Fortran is notoriously tricky, as in this example from &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compilers:_Principles%2C_Techniques%2C_and_Tools_%282nd_Edition%29&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the dragon book&lt;/a&gt;:

In &lt;code&gt;DO 5 I = 1.25&lt;/code&gt;, &quot;&lt;code&gt;DO 5 I&lt;/code&gt;&quot; is an identifier that is assigned a floating-point value. In &lt;code&gt;DO 5 I = 1,25&lt;/code&gt;, &quot;&lt;code&gt;DO&lt;/code&gt;&quot; is a keyword introducing a loop.

It seems that his FP syntax is pretty bad too. He&#039;s assigned cryptic symbols to &quot;combinators&quot; that could have (and had, even then, e.g., in Lisp) natural language descriptions. E.g. &quot;alpha&quot; is &quot;map&quot;, and &quot;/&quot; is &quot;fold&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Scott&#8230; Don&#8217;t do that to yourself.</p>
<p>Ironically, since one of his lasting contributions to the field was a method for formalizing programming syntax, Backus did not have the knack for inventing clean, intuitive syntax. Fortran is notoriously tricky, as in this example from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compilers:_Principles%2C_Techniques%2C_and_Tools_%282nd_Edition%29" rel="nofollow">the dragon book</a>:</p>
<p>In <code>DO 5 I = 1.25</code>, &#8220;<code>DO 5 I</code>&#8221; is an identifier that is assigned a floating-point value. In <code>DO 5 I = 1,25</code>, &#8220;<code>DO</code>&#8221; is a keyword introducing a loop.</p>
<p>It seems that his FP syntax is pretty bad too. He&#8217;s assigned cryptic symbols to &#8220;combinators&#8221; that could have (and had, even then, e.g., in Lisp) natural language descriptions. E.g. &#8220;alpha&#8221; is &#8220;map&#8221;, and &#8220;/&#8221; is &#8220;fold&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: amk</title>
		<link>http://www.wordyard.com/2007/03/20/john-backus/comment-page-1/#comment-537</link>
		<dc:creator>amk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wordyard.com/?p=1246#comment-537</guid>
		<description>Mark C. Chu-Carroll has an entry discussing &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/03/backuss_idea_of_functional_pro_1.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Backus&#039;s  functional programming language&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark C. Chu-Carroll has an entry discussing <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/03/backuss_idea_of_functional_pro_1.php" rel="nofollow">Backus&#8217;s  functional programming language</a>.</p>
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